Espiritu Santo Minas (Holy Spirit Mines)

Does any one recognize the symbols marked A, B, C and D?

This is a Tracing of an original.

HOLA TUSCORO,VOY A BUSCARTE LOS SIGNOS EN UNOS APUNTES QUE TENGO,CONOSCO AQUI EN CHIHUAHUA UNA SIERRA DE ESPRITU SANTO EL NOMBRE ES MUY ANTIGUO DE LA EPOCA DE LOS ESPAÑOLES Y ERA PASO OBLIGADO HACIA EL NORTE, POR SUS AGUAJES , POR FAVOR TRADUCELO PUES NO SE INGLES,TU AMIGO VICTORIO.

Thank You for your response, The river system you see in the map is the Uinta Mountains in Northern Utah. I must admit I have not yet identified the lakes.

I have several of these maps and I am just going through them all looking for authentication and or locations. I am always suspect of the maps that were traced.

Gracias por su respuesta, el sistema fluvial que se ve en el mapa son las montañas Uinta en el norte de Utah. Debo admitir que aún no han identificado a los lagos.

Tengo varios de estos mapas y estoy pasando por todos ellos en busca de la autenticación y la o las ubicaciones de los. Yo estoy siempre sospechosa de los mapas que fueron producidos a partir de un original.

Espero que esta traducción es buena, yo no hablo mucho español, y mucho menos escribir.

Tuscoro.

Very interesting image.

A - Is very similar to a Windlass, Sun, Mine or Treasure sign

B - I believe i've seen it, but can not remember

C - Sure looks like a Totem

D - Similar to A, but with a dot in the middle, if it was only the circle with the dot could mean water.

Theres' a couple things that caught my eye.

On the bottom left hand side you can read antonia de espejo, right? i never heard the last name espejo, could exist but never heard of it, as you should know espejo means mirror in english, some maps or part of them were meant to be seen in a mirror. have you tried it to see if it makes sense?

Another thing would be the Cross, is a variant of the normal cross to show direction, a normal cross with 3 circles means that the longest line is pointing to the north, but on the top, right next to the cross you see an arrow telling you that the north is the opposite way, confusing, isn't it?

I might be wrong, is very easy to get confused with these signs.

Take care!

Thank You Numis, I am familiar with the mirror image thing, I usually if it is present it will be indicated by an upside down triangle, I have had the opportunity to deal with this at two site now and it would seem there is something to it, Perhaps that is not a last name at all eh?

I forgot I had this book, look what I found. Gale Rhoades and his information so far in the last 20 years or so has proven fairly accurate. If I recall he got his information from a man who spent much time in the archives of Spain and or Mexico City.

I also have not mentioned yet that I have in digital format (PDF) many historical books in fact possibly the largest collection available, mostly English but many in Spanish. Most are the earliest accounts of encounters with the Indigenous, North America and Central and south. Authors such as Bancroft, Schoolcraft, Squire and Davis Fewkes, Veytia,Tezozomoc and many more...
Perhaps I can put together a list and post it on this forum. I sell the entire collection of about 700? Books but I can make the Spanish Books available free as long as they are not to large for email.





Espero que esta traducción es buena.

Gracias Numis, estoy familiarizado con la imagen en el espejo algo, por lo general, si está presente, será indicado por un triángulo al revés, he tenido la oportunidad de hacer frente a este sitio ahora a las dos y parecería que hay algo que , quizás que no es un apellido para nada ¿eh?

Me olvidé que tenía este libro, mira lo que encontré. Gale Rhoades y su información hasta el momento en los últimos 20 años más o menos ha demostrado ser bastante exacta. Si mal no recuerdo obtuvo su información de un hombre que pasó mucho tiempo en los archivos de España y, o Ciudad de México.

Tampoco he mencionado todavía que tengo en formato digital (PDF) muchos libros de historia, de hecho, posiblemente la colección más grande disponible, Inglés mayoría, pero muchos en español. La mayoría son los primeros relatos de encuentros con los indígenas de América, del Norte y Central y el sur. Autores como Bancroft, Schoolcraft, Squire y Fewkes Davis, Veytia, Tezozómoc y muchos más ...
Tal vez yo pueda hacer una lista y la publicaremos en este foro. Puedo vender toda la colección de alrededor de 700? Los libros, sino que puede hacer que los libros en español disponibles libres, siempre y cuando no lo son a grandes para el correo electrónico.

Also I think I have the drainage's (Rivers) identified, I have had this map for years and one person labeled the rivers some time ago but I knew he was wrong, hopefully in the next few days I can share that information but for now, I am gone for about 4 days.

Take Care my friends

También creo que tengo el drenaje de (los ríos) identificó, he tenido este mapa desde hace años y una persona la etiqueta de los ríos hace algún tiempo, pero yo sabía que él estaba equivocado, esperemos que en los próximos días, puedo compartir esa información, pero por ahora, yo me haya ido por unos 4 días.

Cuida a mis amigos

It must be from "Footprints In The Wilderness", don't have it, would like to buy it, sure has some nice info.

Now that you found that book you are one step closer to solving the puzzle.

Good luck!

No, that book is also by Gale, His ex partner is a very good friend of mine.
this Book is called "Waybill to Lost Spanish Mines and Treasures" it use to be very hard to come by, some copies I have seen sell for near $1100 until His daughter reprinted the book. I will have to find out where to get a reprint, BUT, Next week I am going to try and make a pdf of the book.

I have Gales book "Footprints in the Wilderness" on disc. Anybody know how Media Mail cost to Mexico? Hint Hint ;-)


No, ese libro es también por Gale, su ex pareja es un muy buen amigo mío.
Este libro se llama "Waybill to Lost Spanish Mines and Treasures", que suelen ser muy difíciles de conseguir, algunos ejemplares que he visto se venden por cerca de $ 1100 hasta que su hija reeditado el libro. Voy a tener que averiguar dónde puede obtener una reimpresión, , sin embargo, la próxima semana voy a tratar de hacer un pdf del libro.


Tengo libros Gales "Footprint In the Wilderness" en el disco. ¿Alguien sabe cuánto cuestan los medios de comunicación de correo a México? Sugerencia Sugerencia ;-)

Ok, so that's another book i haven't read. actually, there's a lot of good stuff to be found, next time i go to the US will try to find a few of them. too bad barns & noble doesn't help much.

There's a guy on ebay that sells CDs with old maps, $7.50 with free shipping.

So my guess is that regular mail should be around $3 dollars and priority or registered mail should be around $6 or $7 dollars.

Well then place you order....LOL

Yes, we'll be in touch.

I'd like to get my hands on some of those books.

Let me know when you have Footprints and Waybill on Pdf

I will do that and let me know next time you go to the states...

Ok, i'll let you know.

That's the Uintas mountains in Utah, right?

Mirror lake should be around somewhere.

The word espejo (mirror) comes into play again, not really connected, but funny how some words seem to be clues, right?

Yes sir!

I am still trying to match the drainage's, I have two working theories...

If only the Spaniards had helicopters and Google Earth eh?

Numis escribió:

On the bottom left hand side you can read antonia de espejo, right? i never heard the last name espejo, could exist but never heard of it,

En una de las empresas en que trabajé hace unos años aquí en Hermosillo, yo tuve un compañero de nombre ENRIQUE ESPEJO, por lo que queda asentado que si existe ese apellido.

Thank You! DEThector

Gracias por el dato DEThector.

Yo no lo habia escuchado antes, pero asi ya no quedan dudas.

Saludos!

Tuscoro, you have a lot of work ahead of you, but no pain no gain, right?

Good luck!

Ugh.....

estimados compañeros , ya le habia contestado a tuscoro ,pero creo que la traduccion no nos da a entender bien,yo le mande decir que ANTONIO DE ESPEJO Y SU COMPAÑERO DE APEIDO CHAMUSCADO PASARON POR ESTAS TIERRAS DEL NORTE POR ESOS AÑOS 1584-1588 en lo que es ahora el edo. de chihuahua .desconosco asta donde llegaron pero el CONQUISTADOR ESPEJO MURIO A PRINCIPIOS DE 1600 EN LO QUE AHORA ES LA JUNTA DE LOS RIOS CONCHOS Y FLORIDO hoy cd. camargo chihuahua,le dije ademas que AQI HAY UNA SIERRA QUE LOSCONQUISTADORES BAUTIZARON COMO ESPRITU SANTO Y SE PARESE MUCHO AL MAPA QUE TUSCORO NOS MANDA , por favor traducele mi mensaje al compañeroTUSCORO y asi saldra de dudas que si existieron esos personajes y que la minas de ESPRITU SANTO QUIZA ESTEN AQUI EN CHIHUAHUA,LOS SALUDO VICTORIO

Here it goes, translating for Victorio to Tuscoro ...........

Dear friends, i had given my answer to Tuscoro, but i think the translation is not making any sense, what i wanted to say was. ANTONIO DE ESPEJO AND HIS PARTNER WITH THE LAST NAME CHAMUSCADO WENT THROUGH THIS LAND OF THE NORTH DURING THE YEARS OF 1584-1588 that land is now the State of Chihuahua, don't really know how far they went but the CONQUISTADOR ESPEJO DIED IN THE EARLY 1600s IN WHAT IS NOW LA JUNTA DE LOS RIOS CONCHOS Y FLORIDO, Camargo city in Chihuahua, in this place there is a Sierra or mountain range that the Conquistadors named Espiritu Santo and that mountain range looks very much like the map shown by Tuscoro.

Please, translate this message to Tuscoro so there's no more doubts about the existence of these caracters and let him know that the Espiritu Santo Mines could possibly be in the state of Chihuahua.

Victorio

---------------------

Hope that works

A ver que tal quedo.

Numis

Very well done Numis... Thank You!

Victorio, If you truly believe this map may be of the area you speak, then you need a larger copy from me, and you are welcome to go after it and find those things which will give credibility....

If you don't mind please give me a GPS Coordinates of this Mountain range you speak of.

It is highly possible it is where you say, but I would still struggle with the fact that the word Yuta.

I can also see there is a probability that the date on the map could be 1584 and not 1884.

Let me know if you want a large copy.


Numis Muito bem feito ... Obrigado!

Victorio, Se você realmente acredito que este mapa pode ser da área que você fala, então você precisa de uma cópia maior de mim, e você está convidado a ir atrás dela e encontrar as coisas que lhe dão credibilidade ....

Se você não se importa de me dar um Coordenadas GPS da Montanha vão vocês falam.

É muito possível, é onde você diz, mas eu ainda lutam com o fato de que a palavra Yuta.

Eu também posso ver que há uma probabilidade de que a data no mapa poderia ser 1584 e não 1884.

Deixe-me saber se você quiser uma cópia grande.

Numis[/quote]

Tuscoro, you keep translating fron english to portuguese

VICTORIO, Tuscoro pregunta si te interesa una copia de mayor tamaño? tambien dice que si podrias darle las coordenadas GPS del lugar?

Lo que el comenta es que posiblemente si sea donde dices, pero lo que se le hace complicado es el hecho de que aparezca la palabra Yuta. tambien comenta que hay posibilidades que el mapa sea de 1584 y no 1884.

Y hablando de eso, la palabra Yuta te dice algo?

Saludos!

Tuscoro, i found this, i has everything you might need.

http://toolserver.org/~geohack/geohack.php?pagename=Camargo_(Chihuahua)&language=es¶ms=27_41_13_N_105_10_21_W_type:city